Transcript of Ramesh Balsekar Satsang, held in Mumbai, India on 25 July 2006

Ramesh: So, who is going to start? Your name is?

Suhas Godbole and Kalpana Godbole.

Suhas: I have come here for the first time. I was guided by Vipul.

Ramesh: I see.

Suhas: I wanted to ask a simple thing. Is it necessary, for a human being who wants to lead a happy and disciplined life, to follow a religion?

Ramesh: No!  What do you mean by religion?

Suhas: My second question was the same. What is the meaning of religion? Of spirituality and dhamma?

Ramesh: Religion has become, a code of conduct. According to certain concepts. That’s what it has become. The original religion, what man has felt, has been lost. It has been lost in the subsequent rituals and what is right and what is wrong.

Therefore, what we are concerned with... That is my focal question. Have you been a spiritual seeker? Ever since you can remember? Or since a particular time? Nine years, twelve years... In your childhood, did you have questions other children did not have? When did it start?

Suhas: Around, when I was six years old.

Ramesh: That’s what I mean. How did it start? With questions, for which the elders did not have any answers? How long have you been married?

Suhas: Ten years.

Ramesh: Children?

Suhas: One daughter.

Ramesh: One daughter. So how did the spiritual seeking become active? You started reading some books or go to someone..

Suhas : Around twenty-four. My grandmother used to do kirtan, Jnaneshwari and I used to go with her, I would sit in front. And after the kirtan everyone would bow down to her and I would feel great, that my grandmother is being respected, but that’s how it started. I wasn’t satisfied with all that.

Ramesh: So, what books did you read?

Suhas: I have read Ravi Shankar, Osho. I am not very active as a spiritual seeker.

Ramesh: And what do you do for a living?

Suhas: I am a medical practitioner. I am a homeopath.

Ramesh: I see. And in your case?

Kalpana: Spiritual since ten to twelve years.

Ramesh: Have you read someone or go somewhere?

Kalpana: I am attached with the Art of Living family.

Ramesh: I see. Now, Art of Living. What is the art of living? If I ask you, first... Is there an art of living?

Suhas: (Laughs) No, everyone has his own art of living.

Ramesh: And, have you read anyone else?

Kalpana: I have read J. Krishnamurthy.

Ramesh: Which books?

Kalpana: "The First and Last Freedom" and...

Ramesh: "The Awakening of Intelligence?"

Kalpana: Yes.

Ramesh: So, what do you think Krishnamurthy is trying to tell you?

Kalpana : It's very difficult to explain.

Ramesh: It's difficult to explain? And difficult to understand also?

Kalpana: Yes, difficult to understand also.

Ramesh: I will tell you what I deal with. The focus question. What does someone like us, reasonably comfortable in life. For which, we have to be eternally grateful to God, there are millions under the poverty line. So, for someone like us who are reasonably comfortable in life, my focal question is, in daily living, we have the common sense to know that nobody knows what the next moment will bring. Sometimes pleasure, sometimes pain. No one can know what the next moment will bring. According to my concept, no one can know the total amount of pleasure I can expect from my life or the total amount of pain I can expect from my life. My concept is that it is predetermined. Whatever the total amount of pleasure in my life, is predetermined. Whatever the total amount of pain in my life is predetermined. This is  my concept. So, according to my concept, it is quite useless to go to anyone or pray to any God with the idea that my pleasure be increased or my pain be reduced.

So with this understanding, what does someone like us, who is reasonably comfortable in life, want most in life? I am not concerned with religion. This is what I am most concerned with. Therefore, first I am concerned with being comfortable in life. Second, with daily living. So my question is, what does someone who is reasonably comfortable in life, wants most, in his daily life? That, is my focus question. Nothing religious or spiritual about it, but that is my concern. What do we want most? Or in other words, what are we seeking? That is my point. What do you think?

Suhas: I think neither spirituality is required nor religion, so...

Ramesh: I entirely agree. In fact, I think the human being would be a lot happier if he did not have religion. But, according to Gods will, cosmic law, the human beings are not supposed to be happy. That’s why, they are loaded with religion. According to Gods will, Cosmic law. But, we are free to chose! We can decide, all right, I don’t want any religion.

So, what do you want most in life? With the understanding that you cannot know what the next moment will bring, sometimes pleasure , sometimes pain, Or you cannot know the total amount of pleasure you will have in life or the total amount of pain in life.

That is something you have to accept, as the basic. In other words, every human being has to live his life, in circumstances over which he has no control, therefore, while we are being forced to live our lives, in the circumstances in which we have been placed, what does someone like us, reasonably placed in life, want most? That is my focus question. Nothing essentially spiritual about it. What would you say? What is the answer? Let me put it this way, if God came to you and asked what is the one thing you want, what would you say? Think all you want, and I have done a lot of thinking over this and the only answer I came to .. was, peace of mind. Pleasure in the moment.. no questions, I enjoy it. Pain in the moment... I don’t like it but there is nothing I can do about it. Daily living means enjoying pleasure or suffering pain. So my question is, what do I want most in life most? I go step by step. Relax. In any given moment, I am either enjoying pleasure or suffering pain.  So whatever it is, whether I am enjoying pleasure  or suffering pain, what do I want most? I repeat,  to begin with, I want more pleasure, less pain. Can't be done, therefore, throw it out of the window. With that understanding, that no one can increase my pleasure or decrease my pain, what do I want most in life? Think all you like. The only answer I have come to is, while I am enjoying the pleasure, I wouldn't like the pleasure to be shattered. While I am suffering pain, I would not like the pain to intensify. It can't get simpler than that. Agreed?

Suhas: Yes.

Ramesh: Now, what can shatter your pleasure?

Suhas: A thought that it may stop.

Ramesh: A thought, yes. A thought arises. Now I am having pleasure. Tonight, my pleasure will be double. Or, now I am in pain. But it may not last long. Another ten minutes. That is also a thought. I agree. So, what is the thought that can shatter my pleasure. Or intensify my pain. Think all you want. The thought that can shatter my pleasure is a thought that I there was something I did, to my father, mother, wife or a dear friend, They have never forgiven me. They may say that they have forgiven me, but they have always held it against me. Obviously, I didn’t mean to do it, that I consider my action, but since that day, the memory of that action, shatters my pleasure and intensifies my pain. Or, something someone else did to me. A dear friend of mine. I relied on him and he let me down.Or he hurt me. I never forgave him.

In other words, my point is, daily living, is based on the relationship between me and the other. Morning till night, what is daily living? A relationship between me and the other. The other may be someone close to me, my wife, or son or someone connected to me by business or some profession, or, a total stranger. Who will be during the course of the day, no one knows. You open the door and there is someone standing there with a knife in his hands. So my point is, what destroys my pleasure is, something I did to the other, or, the thought of someone else did something to me. Isn’t that right? Think all you want. This is the answer you will come to. And, you cannot stop the arising of that memory. So the next question would be, how to have a harmonious relationship with the other.

In order to have peace of mind, my relationship with the other should be harmonious. At the moment it is not harmonious because of the thought, he may do something to me or I may do something to him. My conclusion is , in order to have peace of mind, I must have a harmonious relationship with the other. Whoever the other is, a close relative, or a total stranger. My next question: Why is my relationship with the other now, not harmonious? Step by step.

Again, I promise you, its a simple answer. Why is my relationship with the other now, not harmonious? Its a simple answer. Because the other, will not always do what I want him to do. Can there be a simpler answer? Even my wife and son will not always do what I want them to do. And, I also know that it is stupid to expect them to do what I always want them to do.

So there is the dead end. Does that mean we cannot have peace of mind? That is also not true. We know that there are a few people who are transparently happy. And we can't imagine that there can't be anyone who has peace of mind. That’s where the dead end came. I am telling you all this from actual, personal experience. Otherwise, you will find hundreds of books.

"Art of Living", "Science of Living"....

I am telling you from actual, personal experience. This is where I came to a dead end.

So in order to have peace of mind, we have to have a harmonious relationship with the other. Basically, what is the conditioning every child has received? At home, in society, in school, anywhere. For hundreds of years. What is the conditioning that a child has received? In school, you must be on top of your class! If not top, at least in the first three or four. In the playground, you must play to win! Not to enjoy your play, but to win. In school, not to enjoy your study, but to push the other back. For every child, for hundreds of years, the conditioning has been, the other is a potential rival. The other, may be a brother. But there is sibling rivalry all the time. Even among brothers, there is rivalry.

What  I am saying is, that the conditioning is such in life that in order to win in life, you must win over the other. That is the  conditioning. The other is a potential rival. Take it a little further, the other is a potential enemy. Which means, one will always have fear of the other. With this understanding, can there never be peace of mind? That is also not true. So I cannot have peace of mind because I cannot have harmonious relations with the other. And yet, I know I can have peace of mind.

That’s where I was stuck for some time. Then the answer came to me, again by the grace of God, that I can have peace of mind, only, ONLY, if I can accept totally my concept, that everything that happens in the world, is a happening. According to God's will, cosmic law. Through which person, or body mind organism the action happens, again, according to cosmic law. Any action happening in any body mind organism, how it affects whom, for better or worse, whether a happening happened that hurt someone or helped someone, not in my control. It is according to God's will, the cosmic law, and the destiny of the person concerned.

In other words, no one, no human being, is capable of doing anything . Everything happens, according to God's will. Cosmic law. So I can have peace of mind, only if I can accept totally, that everything happens according to the cosmic law.

Then what happens? If I am able to accept this totally, then, at that instant, my entire burden of guilt and shame, which I have been carrying, for my actions which hurt the other, even a bigger load, of hatred towards the other for what they have done to me, the entire load disappears.

If no human being can do anything, if they are merely instruments through which life happens according to God's will, cosmic law, if I can accept totally, then where is the question, of my feeling guilty for actions that happened through this body mind organism?

Before I had this total understanding, what was my reaction to someone when I was hurt? Very simple, he hurt me, I hate him. Now with this understanding, what is my reaction if I am hurt? Again, my reaction is extremely simple. My reaction is - what has hurt me is a happening, what had to happen by God's will and what had to hurt me was according to God's will and my destiny. A happening happens, which helps me. Previously, I used to feel, he is a friend of mine!! He has helped me. What has happened that a particular action happened through a body mind organism, according to God's will. That it has helped me, is my destiny.

So now my understanding is, a happening has happened. That it has helped me, is my destiny. Through which person it has happened, is irrelevant. So the question of hating somebody or loving somebody, does not arise. In other words, if I am able to accept totally that every person is an instrument, through which life happens, according to Gods will or Cosmic law, there is no question of me hating myself for what I do or hating anybody else for what they do.

So what do you think of my reaction, when I came to this firm conclusion? What do you think of my reaction? Crying? Happiness? It was anxiety. My reaction was that of anxiety. How is it possible for me to live my life, in a society which insists on punishing me for actions which the society considers my actions - I tell them not my actions, they won't believe me. Valid question, isn’t it? I was confused and anxious.

How is it possible for me to live my life with a total understanding that I am not the doer in a society that insists on punishing me for an action they consider my action? And similarly, the society will reward me for an action they consider my action. Is that not a valid question? So that is what bothered me. Lovely concept, beautiful concept. Which even an idiot will accept, intellectually.

It means no more burden of guilt and hatred. But is it a practical concept? My answer was no. Then again, as has always happened, the answer came. That is precisely the concept which the Buddha gave, in his words of course. The Buddha's words, I am told, were, " Events happen, deeds are done, consequences happen. There is no individual doer thereof." That was his concept, but the meaning is the same. No individual is capable of doing anything.

So I was greatly relieved. Even the Buddha had this concept, more important, lived this concept for a long time. So I knew that it is totally practical for anyone to live this concept without any problem, with the total acceptance, he is not the doer. And since then, it has been my experience that I was right. And the Buddha did live, and I also , for the last twenty odd years, I have lived my life with the total acceptance that I am not the doer, with the society punishing me for what the society considers as my action.

You know how? I will tell you. What is daily living? What is the mechanism of daily living? What would you say? Your name is?

Suhas: Suhas

Ramesh: Suhas. So whether it is Suhas or Kalpana or a caveman five thousand years ago, or anyone in the future.

What is the essence of the mechanism of daily living? I repeat, for anyone five thousand years ago, you and me , or for anyone in the future, the mechanism of daily living has to be the same!! And what is the mechanism of daily living? The mechanism of daily living for any person for any time, is that he has to deal with the situation in which he or she finds himself or herself. Every human being at any given time has to deal with the situation. That is the core of daily living. The situation of the cave man ,totally different than that of you and me but still, the situation is that the caveman has to deal with whatever the situation he faces, we have to deal with the situation we face. 

That is the core of daily living. And what is it to deal with the situation? Dealing with the situation can only mean, in that situation, what do I want? I decide what do I want. And I do whatever I decide to do, in order to get what I want. Isn’t that the core of the mechanism of daily living? Which means, everybody has to have total free will, to do whatever he or se wants to do, in the circumstances.

Therefore, the mechanism of daily living, every human has the right to do whatever he or she wants, in that situation. Thereafter, what is our experience? Everybody’s experience is that having done whatever I wanted to do in the circumstance, with all my free will, what happens thereafter?

Thereafter, in the Buddha's words - consequences. "Deeds are done, consequences happen." Consequences of everybody’s actions happen. But what those consequences are, nobody ever has had any control over what happens  So what is mechanism of daily living? Nobody has any control over what happens... Fact of life! To put it in another words, daily living cannot happen, unless I have total free will. According to that right, after what I have done whatever I wanted to do, thereafter, only God's will prevails. That’s a fact of life. Having done what ever I wanted to do, what happens? One of three things happen. Sometimes I have got what I wanted. Sometimes I have not got what I wanted. Sometimes what I wanted, was beyond expectations: usually for the worse, sometimes for the better. Beyond expectations.

And thereafter the society in which I live, does not know what I did . Society can only accept what has happened, one of the three things, judges my action as good or bad, rewards me or punishes me. And having to continue to live in the society, I have to accept the society's verdict. Reward from the society has meant pleasure in the moment . Punishment from society has meant pain in the moment. And that is the essence of life. Sometimes pleasure, sometimes pain. And what is decided by the society, functioning under the cosmic law. That is the whole, daily living. About which no one can do anything.

So, I am living for the last twenty odd years, enjoying the rewards conferred upon me by the society, knowing I am not the doer, So I enjoy any pleasure that is come to me, with a certain amusement, knowing that I am being rewarded for something I know I haven’t done.

Pain happens, I am forced to accept the suffering. For the last twenty years, I have enjoyed the pleasure and suffered the pain. Like anybody else. Like anybody else. Where is the difference? Where does my peace of mind come from?

I believe I am not the doer. I am forced to enjoy the pleasure or suffer the pain. For someone else, he believes everyone is the doer. For him also, sometimes pleasure, sometimes pain. Where is the big deal? What’s the big point? What do you think, Suhas? Whether I believe I am the doer or not, I have to enjoy the pleasure or suffer the pain. Same thing for anybody. So where is the big deal that I have that I am able to accept totally that I am not the doer, which brings me peace of mind?

Simple, honestly. What happens is, I certainly enjoy the pleasure, knowing that it is not my action, there cannot be any pride or arrogance. Not my deal. Pleasure but not pride and arrogance. Similarly, pain I have to accept, knowing that it is not my action. While I suffer the pain, I don’t have to feel guilty. Pleasure but not pride. Pain but not guilt.

Similarly when someone else hurts. Pain but not hatred. With the result, for last twenty odd years, I have lived my life, moment to moment. Enjoying the pleasure or suffering the pain over which I have no control, but my ego has been totally free from pride and arrogance and guilt and shame for my actions and hatred for the other .

An absence of hatred for my actions and hatred for the other, means a presence of peace of mind. Simple. Which is what we have been looking for. So what have we come to?

First, I have total free will to do whatever I want. After that, Gods will prevails. Over which I have no control. That is what it comes to. And would you believe, that whatever I have told you from my personal experience, is precisely what Lord Krishna told Arjuna in the Bhagavat Gita. Nothing more. True, lots of other stuff, but basically, what was Arjuna's problem? The Lord took his chariot right in the front (of the army) . And what did Arjuna see? Brothers and cousins and friends. And Gurus! As his enemies!

So he said, my friends and relatives even, I am prepared to kill! But I will not kill my Guru. So he put his bow and arrow down. That is the beginning of the Bhagavat Gita. So in that situation, what does Lord Krishna tell him?

He says, " You have the total right to act, you have the right to action." Why does he say that? Because unless everybody has the total free will to do whatever he wants, mechanism of daily living cannot happen. So Lord Krishna tells him, you do have the right to act, but you have no rights to the fruit of your action. And promptly, the management expert says, that is stupid advice! How can a man work, without motivation?

How can God expect us to work without any motivation? What is the flaw in this argument? The flaw in this argument is, what did Lord tell Arjuna? You have the total free will to do whatever you want. And what do you want? You want what you want. So how can you say there is no motivation? I am free to do whatever I want. In order to get whatever I want. Total motivation. So I have the right to do whatever I want to get whatever I want.

I have that right. And in the identical situation, the psychopath also has that right. It is the mechanism of daily living. So in a situation, Suhas, say I can now get what I have wanted for a long time. In a situation, I decide I shall not do anything illegal or immoral. In an identical situation, the psychopath says, I have waited long enough for this, now I am not going to let anything interfere with getting it. I am prepared to do anything to get it. Including murder.

See what I mean? We have total free will to the extent that even a psychopath can decide to do what he wants. But what actually happens, neither me nor the psychopath has any control. In other words, having committed murder, the psychopath may not get what he wanted. Even restricted my actions to legal and moral, I may get it. Or it could be the other way round. See what I mean? What happens, is God's will.

And that is precisely what Lord Krishna has told Arjuna. You are free to do whatever you want. But what actually happens, has never been in your control. You do not have the right to the fruits of your action. You have done your best. You cannot demand that you will get what you want. So the core of what Lord Krishna told Arjuna is precisely what I told you in the simplest of terms.

So it's not a great philosophy. Clear, daily living, anything I want to do is my free will. Anything that happens thereafter is God's will. And, the really important point here is, Suhas, that what happens, may not appeal to my sense of logic and reason.

I have done something legal, still not get what I want. The psychopath has committed murder, but he gets what he wants! And talking of murder, what is everybody's experience in the world? A murder is committed. Sometimes, the murderer is caught , detected and executed. That is as far as our logic goes. And sometimes, the murderer is caught, taken to court and the jury decides, not enough evidence the murderer is set free and he commits ten more murders!!

Does not appeal to our sense of logic. Thats not fair. That’s not just. But it has happened, and more than that, so many times, an innocent man has been executed for a murder he did not commit. So my point is, we have the right to action, but what happens, has never been in anyone's control. And, it may not appeal to our logic. The innocent man getting executed is part of God's will, Cosmic law.

On what basis? The basis, the cosmic law is so vast, so complex, our reasoning is very simple. We read a book on logic another book on law and you have it. But the cosmic law, concerns the entire universe, for all time. how can something so complex and so vast e intelligent to the human brain? Therefore, all I can accept is that everything that happens is by the will of God, or the cosmic law, the basis of which, no human being can ever understand. But this important fact, society has not accepted it. Religion has not accepted it. They have to understand the cosmic law.

So the theory of karma. Why did the innocent man get executed? Because in his previous life, he did something or the other. Mind is satisfied. What is wrong with that? Why is the murderer let go? Because in his last birth... What is wrong with it?

That something gets transferred form one life to other is obvious. Idiots in one hand and geniuses on the other had, would not be born. Fact that the they are handicapped babies, something gets transferred... But what gets transferred, I can never know.

What I can know, one thing I do know is what does not get transferred from one birth to another, and that is the ego. Suhas, Kalpana, Ramesh is concerned with this life only. Why? Because the ego did not come with the body. The body mind organism was born as a three dimensional object. What does a new born baby do? intuitively, seek its mother's breast for its sustenance. But the baby has not the slightest idea, that she is a separate entity, looking for a separate mother, for the milk she wants.

So the ego, the sense of being a separate entity, comes at the age of one to two. So, the ego does not come with the body, and so it does not get carried forward after the death of the body.

What is the ego? The impersonal consciousness that gets identified with a particular body with a particular name is the ego. Therefore, what is the ego? It is the impersonal consciousness. Ego is God!! But God, not in his total magnificent splendor, but captive splendor. Impersonal consciousness, total magnificent splendor. The moment it becomes Ramesh, Kalpana or Suhas, it becomes captive. So what is the ego? The impersonal consciousness, but in its captive stage, where it has lost its impersonality.

The ego is nothing but the impersonal consciousness that has given up its impersonality and has taken a special, individual personality. So when the body mind organism breathes its last, the consciousness imprisoned inside it gets released and becomes impersonal consciousness. The impersonal consciousness which has identified with a particular three dimensional object at the age of two or three, gets released from that bondage and regains its impersonality. That is why the ego is not concerned with what gets transferred form one birth to another.

Therefore, on that basis, the human being can only accept that I am free to do whatever I want, but what happens thereafter has never been in my control, and I have to live with it. And for me, that is the ultimate understanding in daily living.

It is the ultimate understanding in daily living. In any situation, I am free to do whatever I want. In any situation if I want to improve myself, nothing stops me. Physically, mentally, temperamentally, spiritually, I am free to do whatever I want. With the understanding, that I may or may not achieve what I am trying to get!

Therefore, the simplest way of living ones life without any strain or stress, other than what the flow of life brings me over which I have no control. Other than the strain or stress which the flow of life brings me, pleasure and pain in the moment, is there a way of live in which I am totally free? I say yes.

Having the ultimate understanding for the last twenty years, I have lived my life in any given situation, doing whatever I I think I should do, having done that, whatever happens, is not under my control. Therefore having done whatever I thought I should do, I need not worry, have I done a mistake? Have I committed a sin? Who cares? Who decides? I have led a beautiful life, for the last twenty odd years, having done whatever I have wanted to do, without bothering "Have I made a mistake? Have I committed a sin?"

Witnessing whatever happens, as something that happens under the cosmic law, without condemning anybody for anything. Can life ever be simpler than that? I repeat. Having done whatever I have wanted to do, without pride or arrogance, guilt or shame, without hating anyone, with the total freedom of doing whatever I want, with the total understanding that I can never make a mistake, or ever commit a sin. Because whatever I have done, is what God expected me to do.

At any moment, whatever I decide to do, whatever the psychopath decides to do, is based only on two factors. My genes and conditioning, the psychopaths genes and conditioning. I did not chose to be born to my parents, so I had nothing to do with the genes I was born with, the psychopath had nothing to do with the genes in his three dimensional object. And as you know, more and more research brings out the fact how powerful this factor is.

Anything I think or do, can be traced to a certain gene. Any disease that happens, can be traced to genes. The latest research, it made me laugh, Am I faithful to my wife? I don’t have to take the credit for it. My genes compel me to be faithful to my wife. By the same token, if I am not faithful to my partner, its due to my genes. I don’t have to feel guilty. Genes is such a damn powerful factor. The other factor, conditioning. Together, I call it the programming of a body mind organism.

Just as I had no control over being born to particular parents, I had no control over being born in a particular geographic environment, and the social environment. Upper middle class, middle class, lower middle class or the low class. In which environment this body mind organism was bombarded with conditioning from day one, this is good, this bad, this is a socially acceptable behavior, this is a sin, God will punish you. So that, at any point, whatever we have thought and done, is strictly limited to these two factors. Genes, and your up to date conditioning, which God made. I say up to date conditioning because I want to make it clear. What is happening now, is fresh conditioning. Which can alter or amend your up to date conditioning, or even transform it. That also has happened.

So my point is, whatever anybody has ever done is based on these two factors. Genes and conditioning. So how can I ever commit a sin? So, I need not fear God at all. In fact, in effect, God has been functioning through me. So I don’t have to fear God, nothing stops me from loving God! As my creator, its between me and my God.

But as far as society is concerned, I am totally responsible. Therefore, whatever the society gives me, I have to accept. Pleasure I enjoy, Pain I suffer. But no mistake, no guilt, no sin! Isn’t that the perfect way to live ones life? With peace of mind!

This is what I talk about. No religion... Is this all I am concerned with? Yeah! This life, this body, is all I am concerned with. What about changing the world? I am not concerned with it. God has created it, let him deal with it.

Valid question. I am talking about someone reasonably comfortable in life. Do I not feel anything for the millions of people below the poverty line? For those suffering with disease, and poverty, do I not feel anything? That is also not true. With the average sensitivity, I do feel for those who suffer poverty and disease. But the point is, in that situation, in which I feel for the poor and the diseased, is there something I can do? That is the mechanism of daily living.

So many years ago I said, I do feel for the poor and hungry. In that situation is there something I can do? And I decided, Yes there is. So a certain percentage of my income, I give to charity to those institutions, who deal with this problem. Having done whatever I can to in the situation, after that, I leave the matter to God.

So my point is this, in any given situation, it is so easy to say, God created it, let God deal with it. And I keep my money. Or, the second alternative, I give some money to those institutions who deal with the problem and thereafter, I leave the matter to God.

So, any questions? No, total surrender? (laughter) As I told you, for this understanding of non-doership, the acceptance has to be total. Intellectually, even a damn fool will accept it. No more burden of guilt and shame... But the concept cannot work, unless the acceptance is total.

So it's a valid question. What is the question? Suhas, Kalpana, what is the question? It's simple. I have no doubt that I have the total intellectual acceptance that I am not the doer. No one else is the doer.

But the question is, what do I have to do in order to have the total acceptance that I am not the doer.? The answer is nothing. If I am not the doer, what can I do? Nothing! Which means, it will happen only if it is my destiny , Gods will, cosmic law that is meant to happen. Otherwise it will not happen.

But then another valid question arises. I have been a spiritual seeker for many years. I have always done some thing or the other fasting, meditation, for all these years. And, nothing to do, just waiting for God to make up his mind, I will be lost. So in order to while away my time, is there something I can do as a spiritual practice? Valid question. For that, I do have an answer. Personal investigation. Very simple, because you are not really doing it.

Personal investigation. If you have time during the day, any time. But if you find yourself busy throughout the day, then at the end of the day, sit quietly, try to ensure that you are not disturbed, and be comfortable.

You don’t have to sit on the floor with your back straight, take the most comfortable chair. And in order to be comfortable if you like some coffee, have it. And do some simple, what I call personal investigation. And that is, from the many events of he day, most of which you will agree, just happened, select one action, which you are sure is my action. Others, I don’t know, but this is my action.

And I can challenge anybody to prove to me that it is not my action. This action, I bet is my action. Then, this action, that I call my action, did I decide to do it at a particular time? No, I did'nt. Then how did the action happen? And then you remember, a thought had happened, an idea had occurred . And that thought turned into my action. And I had no control over that thought or idea. So how can I call it my action?

Action after action, you investigate. And I assure you, each and every time, you will come to the conclusion, if I had not been at a certain place a certain time, and seen something, my action wouldn’t have happened! And I had no control over being at a certain place at a certain time, and seen something, or heard something, or tasted something, or touched something, my action would not have happened.

Every single time without exception. And when you have done this investigation yourself, the acceptance must go deeper and deeper and deeper. Until at a certain time, with gods will and the cosmic law, a flash of understanding is likely to happen. I simply cannot be the doer.

And if I cannot be a doer, the other cannot be a doer either. Whether he or she believes it or not, does not matter. I know, from my own experience that I cannot be the doer so the other is also not a doer. After that flash, no more doubts are likely to remain. 

And, this is my concept.

Suhas: The thought which comes in our mind, is my thought.

Ramesh: No! That is the point. Suhas, do you have any control, over what the next thought is going to be?

Suhas: No.

Ramesh: No one has. Even if God took birth , he wouldn’t have any control over the next thought. Because he has become a human. The impersonal consciousness, has become the identified consciousness.

No one has any control over what thought may occur. therefore, nobody can ever say That I will never do this or I will never do that. Nobody can ever say that. Any thought can come, and any thought can bring about an action, over which you have no control.

Have you heard of the sage Parashar? Parashar was supposed to be someone so unusually innocent, that if Parashar passed by the bathing place, the woman would not bother to cover themselves. So transparently innocent.

So what happens to Parashar? He wanted to cross a river. So he got into a boat. And who was ferrying him across? A young  fisherwoman. And what happens? This emblem of innocence, gets enamored by the young, sixteen year old fisherwoman, Matsyagandha. Smelling of fish. Smelling of fish, but Parashar was enamored by her and the passion was reciprocated. The result was, that they lived together and a child was born. So Parashar tells the fisherwoman that I will return after ten or twelve years I will take charge of him, he is my son. In the meantime, ask for three boons, I will give you. I have that power. The first thing she asked was, take my fishy smell away. Done.

Next, you will be gone, I am only seventeen years old, I would like to marry . So I would like my virginity back! Done.

I forget the third one, but the point of the story is, he did come back to take his son and do you know who the son was?  Sage Vyas, who wrote the Mahabharata.

So what do we say? Parashar did this wrong thing, so sage Vyas was born. No. My point is, because a sage like Vyas had to be born, his parent had to be someone extraordinary, like Parashar.

So my point is, we think only in terms of cause and effect. A had to happen and B happened then C happened. But I say, E had to happen therefore D happened, C happened...Cause and effect, a double pointed arrow.

So if something had to happen later, hundred years later, then whatever happened that led to that, had to happen also. therefore cause and effect. Effect brings about the cause and cause brings about the effect also.

Are you from Mumbai?

Suhas: Yes.

Ramesh: If any questions arise, you are most welcome to come again.